When Ron Johnson left Target in 2000 to join Apple as senior VP for retail, conventional wisdom held that a computer maker couldn’t sell computers. Johnson tossed out the retailing rule book and, working alongside Steve Jobs, built the Apple Store from scratch. In November 2011 Johnson took the reins as CEO of the venerable J.C. Penney department store where investors and the board hope he’ll work some of his magic. In this edited interview, HBR senior editor Gardiner Morse talked with Johnson about innovation, leadership, and when to trust your gut.

A version of this article appeared in the December 2011 issue of Harvard Business Review.