NEVER MIND THE DEATH THREATS: An Apple Store worker tells us what it's really like working for Apple

Tim Cook Apple Store
AP
  • A veteran Apple retail worker has given Business Insider a lengthy interview about what it is really like working at Apple in the UK. This staffer told us:
  • Workers feel the company's mandatory internal criticism policy makes Apple "like a cult."
  • Apple Store workers routinely face death threats from customers.
  • It's easier to get into Harvard than it is to work at an Apple Store.
  • Even if you sell an enterprise contract worth hundreds of thousands, all you will get is £8 an hour and a handshake.
  • Apple store workers are paid so little many cannot afford the products they sell and some go into debt to buy them.
  • Apple doesn't promote from within or give bonuses to its best workers.
  • What happens if you come to work carrying a Samsung phone.
  • Why Apple staff will ask you about your favourite flavour of ice cream.
Advertisement

Apple is notorious for its secrecy and the length it will go in order to prevent leaks about its products. But fewer people know that the secrecy extends all the way down to its Apple Store retail staff, too. Every salesperson in a blue Apple T-shirt signs a confidentiality agreement from their first day on the job, which bans them from speaking publicly. They can't even mention it on Facebook, or take a selfie with their Apple T-shirt on.

Apple Store Employee
All Apple retail workers wear the famous blue shirt. (Note: None of the images in this article show the specific Apple worker who talked to us.) AP

More seriously, Apple store workers in the UK have historically been stopped from advancing inside the company by internal policies that prevent part-time workers from going full-time, and prevent them from being promoted into management positions, our source says.

Apple pays about £8 per hour in the UK (about $11.70). Our store worker — who asked to remain anonymous in fear that Apple would pursue a legal action based on the confidentiality agreement — says that many store workers cannot afford the products they sell, and receive no sales bonuses even when they sell hundreds of thousands of pounds of equipment per day. Some go into debt while employed by Apple.

There are benefits to working at Apple, however: You and your colleagues are selected because you're are more educated and more creative than the average retail worker. You get a generous discount on Apple products and a 15% discount on AAPL shares. And you (occasionally) get direct access to Apple CEO Tim Cook.

Advertisement

Lastly, this veteran staffer describes the routine idiosyncrasies of working for Apple. From the intense compulsory internal feedback from other staff to the death threats from irate customers whose devices don't work.

Apple declined to comment when contacted by Business Insider for comment. Needless to say, the company likely disagrees with much of what this staffer has to say. And this employee is just one of tens of thousands; the opinions expressed here may be neither typical not representative of other Apple store workers. But still ...

If you have ever thought of applying to wear the blue T-shirt, you need to read this.

steve jobs
Justin Sullivan/Getty

Business Insider: Why don't you start by telling me when you worked at Apple.


Apple store worker: I worked at Apple from 2011. I stopped working at Apple in late 2015.

Advertisement

BI: 2011 was the year Steve Jobs died. What was that like?

A: That day was really strange. It was almost like there was a candle-lit vigil for him. We were there for our "Daily Download," which happens every day. The atmosphere was like "now that Steve's gone we're really appreciative that we have these new staff in-store carrying on Steve's legacy." Very strange, very cultish.


BI: Did you have any idea who Steve Jobs was or why he was important, back in 2011?

A: Yeah, everyone does. You go through a lot of interviews to get a job at Apple. You're not expected to know the products inside out, but you are expected to know about Apple and what it stands for. You're expected to know who Steve Jobs is. So on that day, it was really gloomy. The store was in mourning.

Advertisement

BI: Any specific example of that mourning?

A: Normally when you go into an Apple store everyone is so happy, everything's great. You get this idea, when you go into an Apple store, what the staff is going to be like. That day it was the complete opposite. Everyone was sad and quiet. The Apple light on the front of every store was half-dimmed.

BI: You can dim the lights on the Apple logo?

A: Yes. It was like having the flag at half-mast. The logo was half-dimmed.

Advertisement

BI: Did the customers know?

A: We had a load of people come in that day to ask "did you hear about Steve?" and of course everyone had heard about Steve. But they just wanted to come in and talk about him and talk about his legacy.

BI: Did anyone come in just wanting an iPhone?

A: Yes. People who didn't know who Steve Jobs was still came in. But it was a very big deal that day. When you're doing training at Apple, you don't necessarily learn about the products, but you're taught things like "Steve Jobs designed all the staircases in the Apple stores that have stairs. Apple bought a mountain so that all floors in the stores were exactly the same. There's a way that those tables line up with the tiles on the floor", all of that, Steve Jobs designed. In the early days, he would inspect the retail stores to make sure those tables lined up and that everything was as it should be.

Advertisement

Apple Store Employee
Apple

You can sell a £100,000 Apple contract ... but you won't get a bonus, commission or a promotion.

BI: Tell me about how much stuff you would sell in a single day.

A: Every day you were “zoned” on a certain area. Maybe on accessories, or on Mac or iOS — which is iPhones, iPads and iPods. If I was on Mac, I might sell about seven Macs over an eight-hour shift. If I was on iPad it would probably be eight again. With iPhones you’d generally sell about five a day, but the thing they really wanted you to push was getting contracts with them.

BI: So you’d sell all those items in one shift?

A: So you might do four hours on iPhone and four hours on Mac. Lunch is one hour, unpaid, so it’s really a nine-hour shift every day. So per day you’re looking at anywhere up 10 sales in total. If it was a launch you’d be doing a lot more than that. We’d usually sell out by midday.

BI: If you’re selling 10 devices a day at about £800 each…


A: More than that, if you’re looking at a high-spec Mac. We don’t get commission, though.

BI: Why not? Wouldn’t it make sense to incentivise the sales people to sell more? Say you sell 10 devices at £2,000 each, that’s £20,000 a day.


A: The whole point about Apple, the whole ethos, is that we’re not pushing people to buy. You want to educate people about the products and get the right product for them. So you’re not getting someone to come in and purchase a £2,000 computer when what they need is an iPad. We want to make sure they’re happy with their purchase so they come back. The huge thing is NPP: Net Promoter for our People feedback. We actually read the feedback that customers we’ve served send us. It’s very important that they’re happy with the service they received, the product they received and the follow-up service.

They were trying to buy an accessory, I upsold them to a different product that was about twice the price but had more features. They ended up buying several hundred devices for their company.

BI: So in one single day, what was the biggest sale you ever did?


A: When they first came out I once sold five 15” MacBooks with retina display, alongside with a desktop and a couple of Macs. The five MacBooks were all around £2,000.


BI: What about the massive enterprise contract you told me about?

A: Yes, we have business contracts as well. Every Apple store has a business team. So if you come in and say you’re a business customer, there are other services Apple can offer you in-store. [One customer came into the store] trying to buy an accessory, [and the store's staff] upsold them to a different product that was about twice the price but had more features. They said it would be great for their business, and they ended up buying several hundred devices for their company a couple of weeks later. Soon after that they bought another couple of hundred laptops too.

BI: And did anyone get a commission or bonus for any of that?

A: No, we didn’t.

BI: And that was an upsell from an accessory? This person comes into an Apple store looking for what is probably a product at the cheapest price point, and ends up buying several hundred devices!


A: Over a year they spent over £100,000.


BI: What was your hourly wage?


A: At that time it was about £7.


BI: So you’re being paid £7 an hour, and a customer comes in looking for, say, a cable, and you’ve upsold them into a sale over £100,000. And there was no bonus or recognition for this whatsoever?


A: We got recognition — it’s a story that’s told throughout quite a few retail stores. [The salesperson] got a handshake for it [laughs]. You have to expect these business customers, you have to tend to their needs just the same as you would any other customer.

Advertisement

apple store
AP

"One of the managers had to leave ... because he couldn’t afford to even move into a new studio flat on an Apple Manager salary. I think he went back to live with his parents. He was in his late 30s. Maybe 40."

BI: You were at Apple for four years. Why couldn’t you become a store manager?


A: It’s very difficult at Apple. We had between five and eight store managers during my time at the store, of varying kinds. Only one of them had started at Apple the rest had been recruited from elsewhere. From, say, Dixons or HMV.


BI: Why don’t they promote from within? Surely the regular sales staff are the most knowledgeable?


A: That was a hugely contentious issue. They did try to fix that with a “Lead and Learn” programme, where you train on the shop floor by acting as a manager without being a manager. We had some great people on the shop floor, people who had been there for five years, who were selling more than anyone else. But they were still just specialists or experts [two of the lowest ranked positions at Apple].

BI: So why is Apple not promoting these people?


A: I don’t know. It was controversial, hence the “Lead and Learn” programme. But as far as I’m aware — and I’m still in contact with these people — no-one on this programme has been promoted to manager. There are other jobs in-store that can earn you more money, but they’re technical jobs, like working at the Genius Bar, which a lot of people absolutely hated because you’re dealing with really angry customers.


BI: I struggle to understand why Apple wouldn’t promote from within.

The overwhelming feedback was that Apple isn’t promoting or giving workers opportunities to progress in Apple.


A: That was what we wanted to know! It got brought up every three months during a survey where we’d say what we were happy or unhappy with. The survey was anonymous, but the overwhelming feedback was that Apple isn’t promoting or giving workers opportunities to progress in Apple.

BI: Aren't most leaders — the senior store management staff — hired internally?

A: No. I can only speak for our store, but over four years, none of our in-store employees were promoted to a leadership role.

BI: The weird thing is these people coming from Dixons or HMV — these are not good brands compared to Apple. Why would it prefer these guys to Apple enthusiasts it already employs?

A: That was the problem. We didn’t know. I worked at a medium-sized store, with quite a large number of customers in our area. Some workers had been there for so long, but they would always hire outside people. It was a huge issue, and a lot of people left because of that. And they were college graduates, like I was, who had started working there while at university because it was a good brand to work for. They thought they could start on the shop floor, work their way up, and have this great job. But you don’t. Speaking of which, pretty much everyone who’s hired is hired part-time. That’s between 16 and 24 hours a week. You pretty much can’t get overtime. And getting to work there full-time is seen as a huge promotion.

BI: So most people are on about 20 hours a week earning about £8 an hour. That's £160 a week. How would you afford a new Apple Watch on £160 a week?

A: Student loans.

BI: How do the staff internally talk about that? The retail staff can’t afford the products.

A: Not everyone starts out on the same pay rate. Some people were given a starting salary of a lot more, like £9 an hour, which works out a lot better if you get the full-time promotion. So we get a discount of 27% on each Hero product every year. We also get $500 off a Mac and a further 27% off.

BI: But it’s still the case that the majority of the people working at the store simply cannot afford the products on a regular basis.

A: No, they can’t. I had a friend who worked there who absolutely loved the products and would go into his overdraft, go into debt, to buy the latest Apple product.

BI: Do staff talk about how ridiculous it is to work for Apple and not be able to buy anything?

A: It is crazy. One of the managers had to leave because his landlord wouldn’t renew his lease. He had to leave the store because he couldn’t afford to even move into a new studio flat on an Apple Manager salary. I think he went back to live with his parents. He was in his late 30s. Maybe 40.

BI: Do Apple employees regard this as political in any way? Because this is how inequality works. You’re selling devices worth thousands every day and you’re not being paid enough to live in a one-room flat near the store.

A: The funny thing is that Apple pays a good retail wage. We all thought “Holy shit, I’m earning so much more than the last place I worked at.” I think my salary when I started was £7.20. But I got a couple of pay rises. We got a very small pay rise every year — of about 20 pence an hour. We aren't allowed to discuss salary with our colleagues. My salary started at £7.20 and ended on £8.08, and as I said before, that is good retail pay. There were rumours that some people in the same positions were on a much higher salary, but I don't know figures. Employees hated the way pay rises were initiated — in our annual review we were placed into one of three bands: needs improvement, met expectations (can't remember the exact wording), or exceeding expectations. If you didn't hit at lease the second band, we were told that we wouldn't get a pay rise. I was in both the met and exceeded bands, and the pay rise was the same for both.

Advertisement

apple store
Apple Store employees take out new iPhones for customers at the cash register inside the Apple Store in New York, June 29, 2007. Hundreds lined up on Friday outside the Apple store hours before the iPhone, a combination widescreen iPod, cellphone and pocket Internet device, went on sale at Apple's 164 stores and nearly 1,800 AT&T stores. REUTERS/Shannon Stapleton

"They would wait outside until I finished work to run me down with their car."

BI: £8 an hour — that is sad.

A: You’re a retail employee who gets treated like shit most of the time. Not necessarily by the store, but by the customers. It is an incredibly disheartening job.

BI: How were you treated like shit?


A: On an average day, because there aren’t any tills at Apple and you’re just wondering around, people will just come in and complain about the products not working, or the service they received or other stuff that’s completely unrelated to you.


BI: When people do complain, how often is the device actually not working and how often is it just something they don’t understand?

He called me a lazy fucking bitch for not knowing exactly what the issue was, and that I should be fired and go to hell.


A: Maybe 60% of the time there’s actually something wrong. But the point is, they’ll come to you. They won’t have booked a Genius Bar appointment or have looked it up online first. About once a day I was called a bitch for not knowing how something worked. Once someone came in to complain about a device that wasn’t even an Apple product, but a third party accessory. I apologised for it not working and said I’d do my best to help him out, and he called me a “lazy fucking bitch” for not knowing exactly what the issue was, and that I should be fired and “go to hell.”

BI: Does Apple train you to deal with people who are going to be like that?

A: Most of the training isn’t actually on the product, but on things like feedback or the “Apple Steps of Service.” They don’t specifically warn you about bad customers but, looking back, you realise much of training is for customers like that. Like the three P’s: “Position, Permission, Probe.” Position a product or a solution. Ask them permission to touch their device or inquire more.


BI: How many times a day does a customer come in and be abusive?


A: There’s generally an uncomfortable customer interaction for an employee at least once a day, which will need the manager to intervene. For the Genius Bar it’s higher. I had a friend who was working on the accessories wall and a customer literally pushed her.


BI: Ever get death threats?

A: I have had death threats before. I had someone, I can’t even remember why — it may have been an out-of-warranty fix — who told me that because we wouldn’t repair it for free that they would wait outside until I finished work to run me down with their car.

BI: Wow. Did the person run you down with their car?

A: No. I was working late until after the shop had closed. I don’t know if they actually waited outside or not. Luckily I didn’t see them again.


BI: Does management call the police in those situations?

A: Occasionally they do. Strangely it’s not that rare to get threats like that.

BI: How often did you get a threat like that?

A: It only happened a couple of times to me. I’m not sure how often it happened to other people. We’re told not to discuss those kind of things with other people in the store.


BI: So you don’t even discuss it with your other employees.


A: On that occasion I felt very uncomfortable, and obviously mentioned it to management. The customer left before security could get to them, I think, and I worked upstairs for the rest of the day. But I didn’t really want to tell anyone else about what had happened.

Advertisement

Apple store Apple Watch launch day cases
Business Insider

“Apple didn’t fire people for not selling enough products, but sometimes there’s an 'attitude' that you need to have to succeed here, and we think maybe you don’t have it.”

BI: Why can't you talk to other employees about the death threats?

A: You’re under a lot of pressure in there. You’ve got a three months probationary period, and you’re expected to sell a certain amount. They don’t give you figures, but you’re also expected to sell things like AppleCare — which is like an extended warranty — and One to One which is lessons for Mac. I was taken out of the store once to chat to a manager who told me that “Apple didn’t fire people for not selling enough products, but sometimes there’s an 'attitude' that you need to have to succeed here, and we think maybe you don’t have it.” If you’re not performing up to their standards, you can be let go.


BI: So what percentage of people are let go?

A: Not many, actually. After that talk, I did more intensive training with their experts. Experts are like specialists who are “super” specialist. They have to do exams with higher-up Apple people and know pretty much everything about Apple products. So I did some training with one of them. They are good about giving that support, but the way they told me about that was pretty poor, really. They dragged me out of the zone I was working in, to the front of the store and it felt like they were saying “well … you’re shit.” I hadn’t had any communication with managers about performance before that point, which was very near the end of my probation.

It’s cutthroat. In my store, which wasn’t small, for every person that gets a job, 200 don’t. They told us easier to get into Harvard than get a job there.

BI: But you obviously turned it around.

A: I started doing well after I’d had the extra training. But it’s cutthroat. In my store, which wasn’t small, for every person that gets a job, 200 don’t. They told us once that at bigger stores, it’s easier to get into Harvard than get a job there.

BI: Do you believe that?

A: It’s true. They showed us that statistics. They love statistics.

B: If the pay is so low and the job is so stressful, what is the turnover rate like? Angela Ahrendts says Apple has an 81% retention rate.

A: People do stay at Apple for quite a long time in terms of retail jobs. Most people are there for at least a year, but lots of people leave when they finish uni. My store had approximately 100 people, and not including managers five people who were there when I started working, were still there when I left. Unless people decide that they want a career in retail, they leave as soon as they can. A few people were headhunted from the shop floor. That's not to say Apple is a bad place to work, but after you've been there for a couple of months, you realise that you have very little chance of getting out of the retail side of things — you are an Apple STORE employee, not an Apple employee. You also realise how hard the job is, and the expectation that the management and customers have for you is painfully high.


BI: Do you have goals to hit?

A: Yes. But again, goals are not the number of products you sell but your attachment rate of selling AppleCare, One to One, and contracts on iPhones.


BI: So it’s not just “are you selling an iPhone?” It's “are you selling an iPhone with a bunch of stuff attached to it”?

A: That’s the thing ... AppleCare is pretty good. It’s an extended warranty on your product but it doesn’t cover theft or accidental damage. So if people already have insurance they don’t need it. But if you don’t sell it, it comes up in annual review: “Why aren’t you selling it?”

BI: But accidental damage is the most common type of damage!

A: There is a benefit, but if you’ve already got insurance, you don’t really need, even though there’s a huge discount for students.


BI: Do Apple employees use AppleCare?

A: Some do, but it depends. On my iPhone I wouldn’t get AppleCare, because my iPhone’s insured. The other thing we’re told to sell is One to One. It’s an amazing service if you need it. It’s tuition — you can only get it if you buy a Mac — that gives you unlimited sessions, hour long or half hour long, to learn about all the Apple products on your Mac, as well as their Pro apps like Logic, Final Cut Pro.

BI: And how much does it cost?

A: £79 a year. Which seems like a bargain. But if you’re an average user who just wants to use their Mac for Facebook or the internet, you don’t need it. It’s only for people who want to use a specific application they may not know how to. So it’s actually a very small percentage of people who need that. It’s a great service if you need it, but most people don’t. But Apple doesn’t like it if you don’t sell enough of those.

Advertisement

Apple store Apple Watch launch day apple store employees waiting
Business Insider

"You know we’re busy when you can’t see the floor.”

BI: Okay. What are the best things about working at Apple?

A: The people you work with are awesome. Mine was a medium-sized store, and we had just over a hundred people working there most of the time. The managers were cool too. Most people who work at Apple are either musicians or graphic designers. They do really cool stuff.

BI: Does Apple select in favour of musicians and designers?

A: I know that a local college sent out emails to all its students saying Apple really enjoyed employing students from that college and that they were encouraged to apply. They don’t exclusively source from universities though. I worked with a guy who was training to be a doctor. There were all sorts of people there. But Apple does favour those kinds of people.

BI: Why?

A: They like creative people who use their products for things like music production or design — those things that a lot of people use Macs for. Everyone uses computers for internet or word processing, but a lot of people use Macs for those creative things. So I think they want those people who have had that experience to work there as well.

BI: There are benefits too, right, like a discount on Apple stock? That sounds like a good deal.

A: So we could opt in to purchase stock twice a year. The money would be taken out of our salary, and at the end of a six-month period, the stock would be purchased for us at a discount of 15% on the lowest price over that six month period. To be fair to Apple, they do offer lots of benefits, but this was by far the most important one.

BI: And what’s the worst thing about working at Apple?

A: The customers. I’ve met some great customers. They’re awesome. But the pressure is incredible. People would come some days, like a Tuesday morning, when we were relatively empty, and say “You look busy today.” And we’d say “No. You know we’re busy when you can’t see the floor.” There were times when people would wait for over an hour to see someone if they wanted to buy a Mac, or a phone, or just to chat about something. We didn’t have enough staff. Fifty or 60 people working a day still wasn’t enough.

BI: So what’s it like when they launch a new iPhone?

A: It’s crazy. We open the store early, at 8am. Normally stores open at 9am, depending on whether it was in a mall or standalone. We wouldn’t get sent the phones until the night before the launch, so we didn’t even see the products much before the customers. There’d be an “overnight” where people would come in and set up the new phones on displays, but customers would already be queuing outside. They would queue all night. Sometimes they would start camping out before we’d even closed the previous day. When we opened again it’d be unusual if we still had phones left by midday.

BI: And how many people would be lined up?

A: Thousands. Around the block.

BI: Why?

A: They wanted the new product. There’d be a few [blackmarket] re-sellers, but you could only buy two units per person. We’d check the stock we had [about 1,000 phones in total], and say we had 16 black iPhone 64 gigabytes, we’d create 16 cards that said that, go down the queue before opening and hand out cards so people there would know whether or not they’d get a phone.

Advertisement

Apple Watch
Apple employees help a customer in the selection of an Apple Watch at Apple's flagship retail store in San Francisco, California June 17, 2015. REUTERS/Robert Galbraith

"The problem with the Apple Watch is that there are so many different finishes, sizes, wristbands. We’d always be out of a certain configuration."

BI: So which was the biggest iPhone launch?

After the iPhone 5 came out, it never slowed down again. We were never not busy. It was insane.

A: I was there for the 4S launch, 5, 5S, 6 and 6S. The 5 and the 6 were big. The S’s weren’t as big.

BI: Was the launch of the 6 not as big as the 5?

A: They were pretty much the same. Maybe I remember the 5 as bigger because it was my first big launch. But my point is when I started working there in-store — not on the shop floor when Steve Jobs died — was on the iPhone 4S launch. During that time we used to have quiet days, maybe having five minutes free. But the next year, after the iPhone 5 came out, it never slowed down again. We were never not busy. It was insane.

BI: Okay. My understanding as a consumer is that when Apple launched a new iPhone the easiest thing is to just buy it online.

A: It is. But if you want to get a contract, you can’t get one online through Apple. I genuinely believe an Apple store is the best place to buy an iPhone because you can get all the contracts done there, and in some cases the deals you get are better than at Vodafone or wherever. I got my latest phone at Apple because it was cheaper. Also we can get your phone set up. We know what we’re doing with an iPhone.

BI: What was the launch of the Apple Watch like?

A: It wasn’t as big as an iPhone launch. It was like an iPad launch, which only had a couple of people queuing outside.

BI: A couple?

A: Well, maybe ten people in line. You know, real Apple fans. But you could generally get your hands on an iPad if you walked in the next day. With an iPhone launch, you’d have to pre-order it online within a month to get it in-store.

BI: So after the launched the Apple Watch, was your store ever out of stock? Was demand high?


A: The problem with the Apple Watch is that there are so many different finishes, sizes, wristbands. We’d always be out of a certain configuration. But we would always have some watches in. It was nowhere near like an iPhone launch where for a good month you’d have to reserve one online. That’s when people get really unhappy.

Advertisement

Apple CEO Tim Cook
Apple CEO Tim Cook. Getty Images News

"One of the staff members wrote to Tim telling him it was an awful idea. That Beats was an awful company, that Apple shouldn’t buy Beats — as if that would make a difference. Obviously, she got no response."


BI: Did you ever go to Cupertino [where Apple HQ is based]?

A: No, but some people in my store did. I wanted to go, because if you do as an Apple employee, they give you a badge which can let you go through whatever door it opens. A couple of people did work experience where they would fly to Cupertino for six months for training. But that was very hard to get onto. I applied for five of those and never got on.

I had an email from [Tim Cook] once. I’d had an idea that he really appreciated and said they’d implement it in other stores. He probably had no idea who I was, but he still said it was a good idea and thanks for that.

BI: Did you ever meet Tim Cook?

A: No. I had an email from him once. I can’t tell you what it was about, but it was nothing major. I’d had an idea that he really appreciated and he said they’d implement it in other stores. He probably had no idea who I was, but he still said it was a good idea and thanks for that.

BI: So you had an idea at Apple and they implemented it.

A: Yes.

BI: Can you tell me what the idea was.

A: No.


BI: Okay, how common is it for an Apple employee to email Tim Cook and get a reply?

A: We get emails from Tim Cook regularly, but occasionally people will want to email him back. Remember when Apple bought Beats? One of the staff members wrote to Tim telling him it was an awful idea. That Beats was an awful company, that Apple shouldn’t buy Beats — as if that would make a difference. Obviously she got no response. But someone had another idea, similar to mine, about how we dealt with something in-store. Again, I can’t give details as it would identify me. He cc’d it into Tim Cook but also to people in charge of our store area in London. And he got an email back from Tim Cook saying that’s a great idea, we’ll do this. So it does occasionally happen.

BI: Were these money-saving ideas? New product ideas?

A: No, they were ideas on the way things worked in-store. For example, I worked a lot on a very small team in-store that did workshops. We wanted to have a dedicated iPad for this team that would help us in so many ways. Obviously, we have hundreds of them in-store. We just wanted an iPad on our table, and we weren’t allowed one, because that was not Apple policy.

BI: Why would it be helpful to share an iPad?

A: I can’t say any more because it would identify me, but it was for a team which was helping out customers. ... The computers and iPads on the shop floor delete everything new on them whenever you restart them. We needed a couple of pages bookmarked, a couple of apps on there. But we couldn’t do that on in-house devices.

Advertisement

Angela Ahrendts Apple Store
Apple retail chief Angela Ahrendts visits a store. AP

"A lot of people I spoke to would go home and cry after work because it was so horrible and demanding."

BI: Okay, let’s change the topic. Did you ever hear from Angela Ahrendts?

A: Every day, we get a Daily Download. We also had iPads in the store back of house called Retail Me iPads. Retail Me is an app which is like Apple’s newsletter, updated every week with stories about what’s happening in stores, new launches, success stories, and so on. But every week, there’d be a message from Angela — a video that told us what was happening and what she’d been doing. So we did hear from her, just not directly.

BI: So what does she do?

A: She’s a bit like your boss’s boss who you never see but you know oversees the whole thing. If there’s any new going on, she mentions it. Like she got us new T-shirts with the Apple over the heart.

Yes, it’s like a cult. It was literally hero-worship with Steve Jobs.

BI: Where was the Apple logo previously?

A: In the centre. But that was the major thing Angela did for us: get new T-shirts [joking].

BI: Seriously though, there are rules about the T-shirts, right? Like you can’t take a selfie in an Apple shirt?

A: You can take one, but can’t share it anywhere. You technically not supposed to write on Facebook that you work at Apple. You can’t say anything about Apple online.

BI: So if you work at Apple you can’t take a selfie of you in an Apple T-shirt and put it online?

A: No, not at all.

BI: Do people get fired for that?

A: Yes. On my first interview there — I had three before getting the job — I had to sign a confidentiality agreement to say I wouldn’t say anything about Apple on social media, that I wouldn’t do any interviews, and that if I got the job I can’t talk about it. Like “Oh I had a shit day at work, I had a really annoying customer,” etc. You can’t say that. Certainly not online, like Facebook or Twitter.

BI: Is it like a cult?

A: Yes, it’s like a cult. It was literally hero-worship with Steve Jobs. Every quarter we’d have an all-store meeting where you’d watch all of Jonathan Ive’s latest videos and go “Ooh, isn’t this amazing?” It’d be him every quarter telling you about how beautiful his new product is. There was a kind of ethos in the store that you have to believe in what Apple is all about, that you have to act a certain way. It was like every day I went to store I’d put on my Apple Mask, and totally hate it. A lot of people I spoke to would go home and cry after work because it was so horrible and demanding.

Advertisement

Tim Cook Apple Store
AP

“I want you to tell me about that customer. What was their full name; what product did they buy; what did they want it for; what’s their job and what’s their favourite flavour of ice-cream?” And you think “What the f---?”

BI: How is it demanding? Apart from the death threats, you’re not describing anything that sounds that unusual.

A: Although you’d only sell so many products, you’re seeing well over 100 people in your shift. You’re going from one thing to another right away. You don’t have a moment to yourself, and there’s always someone watching you. You’ll be having a conversation with a customer and then afterwards a manager will come up to you and ask “What did you do wrong?” There are steps of service you must follow, the ways you do and don’t talk to customers. There’s constantly new training. Angela did a lot. She’d bring in new training, bring in ways you’d talk to customers.

BI: Is that stressful?

A: Yes. There’s always someone watching you. There’s always something you can do better. Every time a customer purchases something from you, they have the option to give feedback. A lot of the time it’ll be negative because of waiting times, because a product isn’t in stock, because we couldn’t fix an issue that was nothing to do with Apple, or they didn’t have an appointment. All of that feedback would be sent back to us. So every morning you’d go in, open up Retail Me and see your feedback. You’d usually get at least one a day. Not every customer leaves it. My overall Net Promoter score was 88 out of 100. But when you’re working at Apple, while they celebrate the good you do, they really focus on what you could do better, and what can we do to make this better. That’s a constant.

BI: Why is that unusual, though?

A: Well, one of the main things we did [in training] was ‘Fearless Feedback.’ This was something we were expected to do: we had to give either “positive specific” feedback or “negative specific” feedback. You couldn’t give any vague compliments like “you did really good today.” You had to say “You did really well today selling that iPad because you mentioned Apple Care one-to-one, and you managed to align with the customer’s needs.” Really specific feedback. You’d have to do that among your staff, to your peers. You’d be expected to do that at least once a day. Your manager would come up to you and say “what specific feedback have you given today?”

BI: To the person next to you in the store?

A: You would basically have to watch other people’s transactions and tell them what they did well and what they did badly.

BI: And you had to give one of those feedbacks per day?

A: At least one of those a day — you’d be asked what feedback you’d given today, and also what feedback you’d been given today.

BI: Isn’t that really weird? Working with these people every day, they become your friends.

A: They are your friends, and you have to give them this feedback!

BI: Do people ever say “Go F- yourself, I just sold an iPad!”

A: Well that’s the thing: you may have just sold a top spec iPad to a person, but I could come up to you — after asking if you mind having some feedback — and say “Well done on selling a top spec iPad … but you didn’t mention the fact that we have AppleCare in-store. You didn’t mention our in-store workshops. You didn’t invite them to return, and I think that’s something very important that maybe you should bear in mind for your next transaction.”

BI: This sounds like it’s going to go down like a cup of cold sick with every employee.

A: It pretty much does. But you have to do it.

BI: Is it in any way useful?

A: Sometimes it can be. New things happen all the time — like AppleCare+. New products will be released, and there’ll be new software updates. So sometimes it can be useful to be reminded about certain things. But sometimes a customer will come in and say “I want to buy an iPad, this is the spec I want, can you give it to me as quickly as possible?” You’ll say “sure,” and try and tell them about other things when you’re waiting for the product to be brought down, but they say “Seriously, I just want the iPad.”

BI: Some customers know what they’re doing.

A: Exactly. And some customers can get quite irate if you try and tell them information they don’t want to hear.

BI: It is infuriating, like dealing with someone on a script.

A: It is. But you may be given negative feedback for not doing that. Also, when customers give you feedback, they’re asked “Do you know about our in-store business team? Do you know about our workshops? Do you know about the Genius Bar? Do you know about One-To-One? Do you know we do [wireless] contracts?” And if you get marked “no” on that, a manager will come and speak to you and say “We had some feedback recently that the customer didn’t know we did contracts in-store,” even though you’re selling a Mac to someone.

BI: There’s almost a Thought Police aspect to it.

A: Yes.

BI: At Business Insider we give feedback to people, but we don’t have a ritual where I’m forced to give positive and negative feedback to every single employee every single day. That would be insane.

A: At Business Insider, would an intern give feedback to someone above them?

BI: No.

A: We were expected to do that, to give feedback to the managers.

BI: Wow, it’s like Maoist China where you sit in a circle and critique your comrades.

A: When the managers ask you “What feedback did you give today?” it feels like you’re telling on your peers. You say “I gave some negative feedback about this” and they’ll ask “oh, who was that for?”

BI: Did you ever give feedback that resulted in one of your friends getting fired?

A: No, there was never anything as severe as that.

The managers do sometimes listen in.

BI: But over time presumably managers end up hearing that “David doesn’t mention AppleCare” and once they’ve heard this 14 times a week they say “Alright David — you’re out of here for not mentioning AppleCare.”

A: That never happened, because if you hear just once that you’re not mentioning AppleCare you think “I better start mentioning AppleCare.” The feedback mostly ends up saying something stupid like “You were selling a Mac but you didn’t mention that we offer phone contracts in-store.” And you think “No, they wanted a Mac, they already have a phone on contract.” Sometimes a manager will come up to you after a transaction and say “What’s the name of the customer you were dealing with and you’d have to tell them their full name.”

BI: But surely the manager’s not listening in?

A: The managers do sometimes listen in.

BI: They just stand behind you?

A: Yes. But if they hadn’t followed the whole transaction they would come up to you afterwards and say “I want you to tell me about that customer. What was their full name; what product did they buy; what did they want it for; what’s their job and what’s their favourite flavour of ice-cream?” And you think “What the f---?”

BI: The ice-cream is a joke, right?

A: No.

BI: How are you supposed to find out their favourite ice-cream flavour?

A: That was something they would ask you if you were halfway through a transaction and needed manager approval for something. They’d say “How are you getting with that customer? Come back when you know their favourite ice-cream flavour.” You’re supposed to treat the customers who come in like you would your friends, like your parents.

BI: Does Apple do anything with this insane amount of information it’s collecting on these transactions?

A: No. We’re just supposed to make it a personalised connection.

BI: But you’re seeing hundreds of people a day?

A: You are. And that’s why people are waiting an hour, because there are all these hoops we have to jump through to make sure it’s a personalised connection, and that they’re happy.

BI: It strikes me as somewhat dysfunctional if the wait-time to see a member of Apple’s staff is much longer because staff have to jump through these insane hoops in the knowledge that they’ll be interrogated about it afterwards.

A: Yes, it is.

BI: That does sound stressful — you can’t just sell someone a phone.

A: It is, and you can’t, even if that’s exactly what they want. Some people will come in and say “I just want to buy a phone, please just let me buy a phone,” and I think “I’m really sorry, you’re going to have to wait for 40 minutes because everyone else is busy right now talking to customers about other things.”

BI: Like ice-cream.

A: Yes. Another thing that was interesting was if someone wanted to get something repaired. For a long time, if they didn’t have an appointment at the Genius Bar, we would literally send them away even if they came from miles away. We would say “Sorry, you don’t have an appointment today, you’ll have to come back in a week’s time.” And that’s incredibly frustrating for customers. But that was changed a little while ago, now there is more walk-in availability. But it was a relatively poor system for a while. If someone came into the store and said ‘My iPhone’s broken, I use it for business,” we’d have to say “sorry, could you come back in a week?” For some people, that’s not appropriate. And if you don’t get your phone served by Apple or an Apple-authorised service provider, your phone may have voided its warranty and we can’t replace it or even touch it anymore — even if you pay us money.

Advertisement

apple store hangzhou
ChinaFotoPress / Getty Images

"Most of the people I worked with got one, not because they needed it but because they were brainwashed into thinking 'I need one!'"

BI: Okay. It doesn’t sound terrifically cult-like so much as just strict. I mean, how weird does it get?

A: Pretty much everyone in store had an iPhone. You didn’t have to have an iPhone, but you were deemed weird if you didn’t have one.

BI: So what happens if you’re an Apple employee and you walk in with a Samsung?

There was one person who did that [bought a Samsung]. Literally one out of over a hundred of us. They were seen as weird.

A: There was one person who did that. Literally one out of over a hundred of us. Nothing really happened, but they were seen as weird. “Why would you have that?” we thought. “Why is it better than an iPhone?” It’s drilled into your head that Apple is the best. You begin to truly believe that. Like when Apple Watch launched, we were offered a 50% discount on it. I knew that I didn’t want one. But when you’re in the store and everyone’s like “Oh my God, are you getting the Apple Watch? I’ve got the new Apple Watch!” Most of the people I worked with got one, not because they needed it but because they were brainwashed into thinking “I need one!”

BI: So there is a discount on these things?

A: When the Apple Watch came out we were offered 50% off, mainly so we could get one and explain it better to customers. But that’s still over £100, which is a lot on a part-time job.

BI: Okay. What’s the worst product Apple sells. What should people not buy?

A: At this point. The Apple Watch. It’s a bit like the first iPad, which lacked a load of features the iPad 2 had. My parents still have the iPad 2. They want to get a new one, but theirs works, and it does everything they want it to. The next Apple Watch will probably have far more features.

BI: Between the iPhone 5 and 5S, that was a period where Samsung had big-screen phones and advertising that made a lot of fun of Apple. It was a brief period where Apple seemed to be in the doldrums and Samsung had its mojo working. Was that noticeable in Apple stores?

A: Not at all. Then the iPhone 6 came in and it got even busier.


BI: When you’re an employee is there ever a point where you look around externally and think, “Hey, Apple doesn’t have that.”

A: No, not at all.

BI: So let me just show you this massive, beautiful phone, a Samsung Galaxy Note 5, in ivory gold, with a stylus. You don’t look at this and go, “Wow, if only Apple could design a phone like that”?

A: Steve Jobs hated styluses!

Apple
Advertisement
Close icon Two crossed lines that form an 'X'. It indicates a way to close an interaction, or dismiss a notification.